My two cents about warnings

[thegrrrl2002]

I've always been pro-warning, although in the past I could see the point of those who where not. My feelings were that it's common courtesy to include them. In my case, I use them to avoid reading deathfic. It was something I always felt sort of ashamed of, that deathfics affect me so strongly. But they bring about a deep depression and sadness, dredging up memories of childhood and the feeling of profound loss, fear, and anxiety that I have worked years to overcome.

And yet my reaction is pretty minor compared to what I've seen described by people who have been victims of rape and abuse and were triggered by coming across it in fic. All anti-warning arguments pale in the face of their deeply moving stories. Now? Anti-warning arguments pretty much piss me off. So do the people who make those arguments.

As much as I want fandom to be my happy!fun place, I'm glad this discussion has come around again. Because I would like it to be a happy!fun place for everyone.

[Newsletters, please don't link.]

Comments

[sonia6349.livejournal.com]

Pardon my ignorance, but, were warnings the topic of discussion some place in particular? I've seen comments about this subject for a couple of days now but I don't know where it all started.

[amberlynne.livejournal.com]

This (http://wistfuljane.dreamwidth.org/21098.html) is a pretty comprehensive rundown of how it started. Along with this (http://queenofhell.livejournal.com/493231.html) and this (http://lcsbanana.livejournal.com/1896602.html) for a good review of some of the worst offenders.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much - I probably should have included links in my post.

And your icon is awesome. *g*

[sonia6349.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info!

[wpadmirer.livejournal.com]

bluebrocade wrote a nice thing about how it's the hopelessness of deathfics that set her off. They really affect her. That's exactly what it is about them that bothers me. I once watched a movie that I spent weeks afterwards rewriting the ending of because it totally sent me into a spiral of depression.

And that was a confusing sentence. Hopefully you can make sense of it.

I usually think I'm fine with most anything (other than the death thing), but then I watched a MILLENIUM about incest rape and I was a total basket case all night. It was the way the story was told, it echoed so much of my story that I shook for days.

So it's amazing how even when we think we're okay with the past, how something can unexpectedly set us off.

WP

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

It was her post that inspired mine - I always felt that my reaction to deathfics was some kind of personal failure, but the more I read about other people's reactions, the less ashamed I am of mine. So I figured it was time to 'fess up.

And yes, your sentence made perfect sense. *g*

So it's amazing how even when we think we're okay with the past, how something can unexpectedly set us off.

Yes. And as I get older, certain things are coming back to haunt me in ways that I never imagined. More and more things set me off and I'm so not happy about that.

Also - ::hugs:: I never watched Millennium, but it seemed like a dark gritty show and I can imagine that kind of story would be very hard to shake off afterward.

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

So it's amazing how even when we think we're okay with the past, how something can unexpectedly set us off.

That sums up why I get so infuriated with people who are going "Oh well people who have triggers just need to be more careful!"** Like it's something that's so easy to control. As a friend of mine said, this isn't like having an allergy to peanuts where you know exactly what will make you sick and what won't. It's way more complicated.

Not to mention that creating a safe space isn't something that happens in a vacuum or by the efforts of the individual to guard her/himself against the world. Everyone has to participate.

Bah. This subject makes me rage-y.

** - I am not stating that your experience was due to an actual trigger or not as that's not for me to say. I didn't want to sound like I was implying that I understand your personal experience. I just used it as a jumping off point.

[wpadmirer.livejournal.com]

** - I am not stating that your experience was due to an actual trigger or not as that's not for me to say. I didn't want to sound like I was implying that I understand your personal experience. I just used it as a jumping off point.

No problem. I understood what you were doing, but I appreciate the note.

WP

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

I never understand why it's so hard to put a warning in there, I mean, not only do some people have very traumatic events that they really REALLY shouldn't have to read a fictionalized version of between two characters, but personally, like you, I have things I want to avoid, I'm not into character death, major character death that is, bondage or cutting, people forced into various sexual acts..warnings allow us to avoid things we'd rather not read and also help people find things they'd like to read.

It's common courtesy, if you can warn about spoilers you can warn about other things.

While I can understand warning about everything can get a little too much..I mean, if it's slash there is a good chance one man will be giving another man a blow job and if that is unexpected in male slash that's the reader's fault..but certain things, like rape, abuse, etc, absolutely should be warned.

I've never had a problem with warnings and really can't understand why anyone would, I mean people write 50,000 word fics, a 20 word line to warn isn't too much to handle.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly! It's not that complicated! I can't see why people don't get that.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

I think there's a fear that warnings somehow give out "spoilers" for their fic, or that's a reason I've seen given many times. What annoys me, is many of the same people who are anti-warnings for things like major character death or noncon, would be ripping people to shreds if they posted the plot of a Supernatural episode without appropriate cut tags. Makes no sense to me.

[sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com]

*loves you all over*

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Right back atcha!

::hugs you 'til you squeal::

[sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com]

Eeeee, and thank you for my ice cream! My visit went as well as it could - and with some anti-anxiety meds, a wonderfully accommodating dentist, and a good friend as my companion, I made it through. Today I am just limp with relief.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear it. And yay for it being over and DONE. You deserve eleven billionty ice cream cones.

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

All anti-warning arguments pale in the face of their deeply moving stories. Now? Anti-warning arguments pretty much piss me off. So do the people who make those arguments.

Yes. This. Normally, although I may feel strongly about a fannish issue, I can see both sides. Now, not so much. Certainly, there are some things that can't be universally agreed to warn for, like BDSM, but this shouldn't stop us from asking that people be courteous and warn for things we *can* pretty much agree on. There is common ground here, and I'm noticing a lot of the people who are coming down violently on the other side tend to be fairly common wankers (and some of them ACTUALLY PUT WARNINGS IN THEIR OWN STORIES. I mean, WTF?) I'm getting so tired of the excuse that because we *all* can't agree to be kind to one another, we shouldn't even try.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

It takes a lot to piss me off, especially when it comes to fannish issues. But this? It's basic human decency, for god's sake. I fail to see why it's so hard to understand.

And while there's always wankers when these kinds of discussions come up (seriously, WTF?) there's also some people who I used to respect making very specious arguments. It saddens me greatly.

[coreopsis.livejournal.com]

Yes, I used to be pro-warning but not really that fussed about it one way or the other, but this latest round with input from actual survivors about what triggers really do....I just can't believe people can still argue that warnings are a bad thing.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

God yes. Those posts were emotionally wrenching and made a huge impact on my thinking. I can't see how people can remain unmoved by them.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been reading these comments about pro and anti warning and do believe it's better to put a small warning about the story
for example if the story has violence or some sexual content in it then put it in the header.
It's not that hard to do and it make a lot of people happy.
I for example dislike rape fic, I did read one accidentally and it left me with a very bitter after taste because the author in this matter did not gave a warning in the header and it reminded me to myself and someone I hold very dear.

I'm sorry that I'm posting anonymous it's not that I'm afraid of anything but it's just that I don't have an LJ
And please forgive me for my bad english it's not my native language.

~ SilverAngel

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

That must have been so awful to read that fic and have such an unpleasant surprise. I don't understand how people can think it's okay not to warn for rape. It just seems...cruel.

And your English sounds pretty good to me! No need to apologize at all. I'm glad you commented.

[melagan.livejournal.com]

Deathfics harsh my squeee so I don't read them as a rule. There are always exceptions of course. _{Freedom's just another word}. But for me it really is that simple

But are we forgetting the other side of the coin? Where one reads warnings looking for the kind of story they're in the mood to read. How maybe times have you seen a warning for tentacle fic and glomped all over it? Okay, maybe that's a bad example

anyway

Warnings can be Full Service!

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Gah, I hated that fic. I knew what it was all about when I read it, but I was curious since it had been talked about so much.

I think that's very true, too, that warnings do help categorize fic, which helps when people are in the mood for something specific.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I've seen various arguments, ranging from artistic (it would spoil the fic) to people claiming that they can't warn for everything that might be offensive, so why bother to warn at all, to others stating that it's not their job to make fandom a safe place for everyone, that people read fics at their own risk.

I'm paraphrasing a great deal here, of course. There are a couple of links to current discussions in amberlynne's comments further up, you'll find more information there.

[destina.livejournal.com]

I wish I had remembered to put your last line in my post. My life today would be a happier one. *g*

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I can certainly understand that sentiment. I wasn't in the mood for a whole lot of discussion or arguing, I just wanted to put my thoughts out there.

[carron.livejournal.com]

Common courtesy can be rather thin in fandom. I warn. I have great honking blue fonted warnings over a number of my fics. It's no trouble and it keeps readers safe and unhappy feedback from my inbox. Please explain to me how any of that is troublesome or burdensome - for either side.

::: gives you big smushy hug :::

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Aw! ::hugs you back::

I have no idea why this is such a huge issue for people, honestly. ::sighs::

[perfica.livejournal.com]

I agree with you 100%. And I dislike that people are alluding to a 'Mean Girls/Nice Girls' argument. For me, it's not even about common courtesy. I just don't have it in me to be deliberately cruel to someone.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Gah, I hate the Mean/Nice argument. WTF, people? Is it really that hard?

And your icon is awesome.

[perfica.livejournal.com]

It doesn't get used often but when I find a need for it, John does it best ;-)

[silkmoth101.livejournal.com]

I am absolutely with you here. A few days ago I talked with lanning about it. There is a difference between 'could trigger' and 'squick'.
I almost threw up about the BS some people were saying these last days. Great for them, when they live a life happily ever after, but there are many people (like me) who can be triggered into terrible things.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

People can be incredibly selfish. Or maybe completely lacking in empathy? I don't get it, I really don't.

I'm so sorry that fandom isn't a safe place for you. ::hugs:: I hope this current discussion changed some minds on the subject. Or at least made them think a little.

[silkmoth101.livejournal.com]

I'm reading slash since the 90ties... with secretly sent novels from the US. :) Fandom is a happy place for me, but only because I am really careful what I read. I tend to stick to authors I know and trust, or to new fics I got recced from these authors.

But I know quite a few people, especially young people, who are scared of reading anything anymore. Especially since in the last two years or so really dark stuff (fics which had a warning list a mile long earlier) is being written.