SGA 2x6 "Trinity"

[thegrrrl2002]

Okay, this is going to be incoherent, because, because, well--my brain went kerblooey.



There was more John/Rodney in this ep than my brain could handle, obviously. I probably should wait for a second viewing to make any comments at all, because right now all I can say is OMG! So in LovE!

Ah-hem.

Seriously, this was one fabulous episode. There were some bits I didn't like, like the entire B plot, which suffered largely from being paired with the slashiest greatest A plot of all time. Okay, maybe that was overeaching, but it was a damn exciting A plot. I loved the very opening--an ep that starts with them going through the gate on an Adventure. How cool is that? Rodney being a 'veteran' of gate travel, and telling Ronon not to eat lunch before traveling, LOL. I love the recurring food theme with those two. It's highly entertaining.

And then it's all about Rodney. And John. John smiling his great big "I love my brilliant, brainy boyfriend so damn much" smile. Rodney, Zelenka and John being ridiculously cute and excited. And John being smart, surprising even his smart boyfriend with his smarts.

Plus--The Montage! Oh, how Atlantis loves The Montage. This one had Zelenka and McKay arguing fiercely, though, so it was a good montage. Better than the Siege II one. Or the "Poisoning the Well" Science! montage.

Then we have disaster, the Dead Scientist thing happens, and lo, we get to see emotional fallout for once! Yay! And woobie Rodney breaks our hearts. Well, mine at least. We move on to Rodney being totally, utterly focused on getting this power source/weapon up and running, convinced he can succeed where others, i.e. the ancients, have failed. I loved it. I can absolutely see Rodney being totally convinced that he's right. As a scientist, we've seen that he's capable of doing amazing things, and his ego is right in line with that.

The scene where he goes to see John, to convince him that he can make the power source work, is absolutely wonderful. I think I melted at the 'trust me' part. I'm pretty sure John did, too.

I knew things were going to go all wrong at the end, but still, I hurt for Rodney during it. (But he and John went there together! ::squee::) I loved the fighter pilot thing John tells Rodney--I like that John understands some aspect of how Rodney feels about it, that he recognizes the intensity and focus and total lack of perspective.

What I didn't get was John's emotions at the end. ( I also didn't like Weir yelling at Rodney, because I just don't think that's in character for her. And come on, there are plenty more planets in the galaxy.) I'm going to have to watch this ep again, (well, duh) but when Rodney catches up with John, and they talk--John's certainly not happy, but I wasn't getting a 'totally pissed' vibe off of him. Disappointed? He trusted Rodney, put his ass on the line but we really don't know how Rodney's failure is going to affect him, and his relationship with Weir. He must have known it was risky going in, despite Rodney's assurances otherwise. Was he being totally sarcastic? Was he upset with himself, in that he didn't rein Rodney in? His last line, I can't remember it exactly, is that Rodney can earn his trust back if he really wants to, seemed kind of positive, unless I'm reading it totally wrong.

Bah.

I think I was too distracted by Rodney being so utterly, heartbreakingly sincere to really get a read on John.

So where do they stand now? Will this be totally forgotten by time the next episode rolls around? Considering SGA actually understands the meaning of continuity, I suspect not. I'm really interested in seeing how their relationship plays out next week. And how Rodney reacts to having failed in a big, big way. Failed John, failed himself, and let's not forget Zelenka. He's got to be a little irked by Rodney's attitude there at the end.

I think I need to go watch this ep again right now.

Comments

[ilexa.livejournal.com]

Oh, god. So heartbreaking. David was amazing. OMG so amazing. he just smooth ripped my heart out and was vain and endearing and *guh*.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, and yes. I swear, I get more amazed by DH's abilities each and every time I see him. I can't believe how endearing and vulnerable he can be while being so obnoxious and vain and arrogant.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

This ep broke my heart, cause Rodney lost the trust of EVERYONE. Radek, John, Lizzie, the entire expedition.

And we know from Letter From Pegasus that, damnit, he loves them all. They're his family. And now he may have lost them.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Well, I think everyone is shaken up by it, but I can't see how this can negate everything else Rodney has accomplished since they've gotten there. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out down the line.

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

it was very nice to see them portray the connection between emotions and experience. and rodney's acknowledgement that he will have to live with the consequences felt vital.

thank you for your perspective and your review. *g*

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

LOL, did my review make any sense whatsoever?

I did very much like that the consequences of Rodney's actions were acknowledged. So many people have died on Atlantis up to this point, and I feel like a lot of times the emotional impact is overlooked.

[coreopsis.livejournal.com]

His last line, I can't remember it exactly, is that Rodney can earn his trust back if he really wants to, seemed kind of positive, unless I'm reading it totally wrong.
See, it seemed positive to me too which is why I'm a little surprised that all the comments I've seen so far seem to be focusing on how brokenhearted Rodney was. I mean, yeah, it was not a happy time for him, but I got the impression that he saw that John is going to give him a chance to get back in his good graces and he was good with that because (in his inimitable way) he knows he can do it. John obviously can't resist him. *g* I still can't get over them practically outing themselves to Zelenka in that 'look at him' scene. hee.

But anyway, I agree that it'll be very interesting to see how everyone is getting along next week. And Ronon and Teyla looking at them and going "WTF is y'all's problem? We go away for a couple days it all goes to hell." *g*

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you! I like your take on it, and I see it myself. I thought Rodney actually looked kind of relieved afterward.

I still can't get over them practically outing themselves to Zelenka in that 'look at him' scene. hee.

LOL, that was a fabulous moment, wasn't it? They may as well had been holding hands at that point.

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I need to watch it again, too, but first I need to sleep. I was too caught up in the squee to get a good read on John at the end. And you know John chose to go. He can't act like this is all Rodney's fault. After the conversation with Zelenka, JOhn is the one who says we'll call you after the test.

Hmm, I think he's disappointed not in Rodney's overreaching but that Rodney can fail too. John has put so much faith in Rodney, over and over again. They've put a huge amount of faith in one another, but John has voiced his faith in Rodney repeatedly. And Rodney failed. I think that troubles John in ways and on levels he may not even be consciously aware of. Rodney's let him down. Rodney isn't his Big Science Hero anymore, he's a man. John has always known that, but I'm not sure he believed it. In fact Rodney's character flaws would have only made him that much more larger than life.

Okay, I'm off to sleep and ponder this. Assuming I can get to sleep. Because damn. /g/

Although it's strange to have them go so close to making something canon and be just shy of it. It makes me expect things to go differently than they do on screen and creates an odd sort of dissonance.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I like that idea, that John is realizing Rodney isn't superman. I think they put an enormous amount of pressure on Rodney, in that 'of course Rodney can fix it' kind of way. I'd love to think that played into Rodney's determination to make the power source work.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

oops, i should read comments before making my own...eh, yes, that about the disappointment...

great analysis chelle and grrrl!!! and now i want to be able to download it to just click to the scenes i want to rewatch without searching them forever on tape...

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

Thinking about Elizabeth, I think maybe she felt backed into a corner by Rodney and Caldwell and forced to act against her better judgment. Then when it all fell apart, she was angry. Plus, Rodney did refuse to listen to Zelenka, treated him horribly, and put their lives at risk unnecessarily.

I'm not sure Rodney gets that his life matters to more people than just himself. He talks about his own importance, sure, but I'm not certain he feels it in a responsible for these people way. I'm not sure John does either. They're willing to risk their lives for Atlantis, but I don't think they understand that Atlantis can't afford to lose them. That they have a responsibility not to risk their lives unnecessarily because other people need them.

Elizabeth understands that, and I think she's angry that they don't.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

LOL, you're not in bed yet, are you?

BTW, I made a new porny icon.

That's a good point about Weir, I hadn't thought of the Caldwell angle. He basically yanked control of the situation from her, and that's got to have pissed her off. (I love the way MP played that scene, was he smug or what?) And the thought of almost losing two of the most important members of her expedition, yeah, maybe the yelling wasn't totally OOC.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

His last line, I can't remember it exactly, is that Rodney can earn his trust back if he really wants to, seemed kind of positive, unless I'm reading it totally wrong.

For me, it was more the expression on John's face more than his words that convinced me that he was going to forgive Rodney. I worry though about how this will affect Rodney's ability to pull miracles out of his ass. If he loses even a little confidence in himself, it could have serious repercussions for the Atlantis mission.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Yes! Exactly. John had a little smile on his face when he said it, sort of smirky but not totally.

I remember a comment from Martin Wood, I think, about this ep. He said that DH and JF struggle a bit with how to play some of the scenes, and I'll bet this is definitely one they struggled with.

I'm sure we are going to see this affecting Rodney. It's going to be interesting, because even with clumsy writing, DH has a way of making it all work. *g*

[orange852.livejournal.com]

I see John's "reaction" at the end as wholly the invention of writers attempting to de-slash the relationship. How can viewers see subtext when the text is so chilly and distant and awkwardly at odds?

Pity the pro writers. They don't understand that slashers LIVE to bridge the distance! Warm the chill! Awkward sex can be the best!

BRING ITON!

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I see it that way, but no matter how the writers write it, JF and DH play it so slashy it doesn't matter what they are saying. There's such warmth between them, it's just lovely to see.

[seikaitsukimizu.livejournal.com]

Wow, after commentary like that on the episode, I'm not sure what else can be said. Between the slash potential and the end yelling (strangely similar to lines that have happened in one of my fics) and the angst and the GREAT fic that'll come of it........you know, I've forgotten where I was going with that sentence. *sweatdrops*

But I will point out two things:

1) McKay has now at least matched if not exceeded Carter's record.

2) Did anyone else notice the Gateroom controller...is Canadian? I kid you not. Obviously, Rodney chewed out all the military dweebs until he got one that he personally approved. ^-^

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

LOL, I felt like my commentary was entirely mashed up and incoherent.

But you're right re: Carter's record for disaster. I love it. *g*

The gateroom controller--you mean the one who replaced Grodin, right? But Rodney liked Grodin!

[rivier.livejournal.com]

I just watched it!!!!! I came straight here to plotz.

I think the ending, considering what has happened before, was totally upbeat! Maybe my slash coloured glasses but I think not. Rodney is trying so damned hard not to let this whole thing overwhelm him emotionally - like with his 'joke' with Elizabeth about how much of the solar system he destroyed. I think if Sheppard let him get back in his good graces without a thought - and I believe *he* is totally ready to forgive and move on - but the risk is that Rodney really won't understand that their friendship and the mutual trust are an incredibly valuable, incredibly worthwhile thing, and a tangible thing, built on experience. Not just unconditional blanket approval, because that would be shallow and illogical.

Rodney understands empirical reasoning, he understands that he screwed up. Sheppard needs to show that he shares that understanding, and the huge pressure that put their trust and friendship under. So yes, I think he has to say the hard words, and to behave reserved enough to make Rodney chase him all round the city to actually deliver his apology. But then, the way he says that last line is quiet and trusting and affectionate - a total contrast to the warning Telya gave Ronon. And he smiles, and though Rodney looks chastened, he's clearly not left without hope.

Man, I'm sounding like such a loony here, but I adored this right down to and including that last moment. Hewlett is a god - and Flanigan was right up there with him! This was more honest emotion from Sheppard than I can think of, when he's been around people. Oh God, they so brought it home.

I am in love love love love LOVE! in case that wasn't clear.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

Apparently I borrowed your glasses cause I saw the same thing. Rodney wasn't devasted at the end. He was hopeful. The smile of hope fades at the end as the reality of it hits him. But that's realistic. He had hope and he was aware of how serious this was and he and Shep were going to be okay. Who could ask for more? LOL

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

i think you're right about john's response mostly being disappointment and maybe a bit of anger at himself (hey, for trusting rodney for all the wrong reasons maybe??? :-). Or there might also be a bit of the caldwell vs elizabeth dynamic that splits his allegiances and his beliefs. He wanted that weapon almost as badly as Caldwll, didn't he? (even though he knows to trust Elizabeth's feelings???)

the most annoying thing about the B plot to me (other than the fact that it seemed only tangentially connected) was that it took Teyla and Ronon apparently the entire time they figured out what the weapon was to walk from the negotiation center to the in where Ronon's buddy was drinking. those are some majorly good scientists there on Atlantis :D [even if that fancy chamber was already there and didn't need to be set up]

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

hey, for trusting rodney for all the wrong reasons maybe???

You know, that's an entirely valid interpretation of it. *g*

It will be interesting to see if there's any fallout between Weir and Sheppard because of this. And I can totally see Sheppard being in the middle, torn between Weir, Caldwell and Rodney.

[nel-ani.livejournal.com]

Dude, you were *plenty* coherent. I didn't manage to get that many words out. :D

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

LOL! My brain was all John! Rodney! John! Rodney! So in love!! I can't believe I manage to write anything at all!

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

the Weir yelling thing - I thought it was a combination of the fact that Rodney was just being stubborn despite EVERYONE around him telling him no, and he insisted on his way instead of listening to other people telling him he was wrong, which can be fatal for them, and the fact that he blew up multiple planets. We're left to assume there's no life on any of those planets but what if there had been people on one of them? It's a chilling thought that Rodney's stubbornness and monomaniacal streak could have destroyed multiple populated worlds - there could've been an even worse case scenario than what happened. I'm sure that's on Elizabeth's mind. Because would Rodney have behaved any differently if there had been people? Who knows.

(side note: they've made it clear that she's relying heavily on Radek's judgment in these situations because he's more tempered and realistic than Rodney and right now Rodney proved she's right to do that. *minisquee*)

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

That's really cool how Weir is relying on Radek and that Rodney proved her right to do so. It was interesting cause Weir is siding with Radek in that moment.

Shep and Rodney...Shep is listening to Radek then looks at Rodney who's countering and ULTIMATELY, he goes with Rodney.

That was a cooler segment than I realized.

Actually, I've had another thought

[orange852.livejournal.com]

Could the ending of "Trinity" be the Bridge writers trying to "make up" for the head-patting, patronizing, too-quick papering over of the horror showing that was "Gemini?"

I don't know how the Sam-can-do-no-wrong fans feel about it, but the the oh, pshaw, you couldn't have known, crap the guys layed on Sam when she tried to take responsibility for her cock-ups in Gemini about turned my stomach. Were the writers trying to ensure that not only is Rodney never Rodney the Wonderhorse, but that he's allowed to take responsibility?

Or were they just showing that Sammy the Wonderhorse is the only one who can do no wrong?

Re: Actually, I've had another thought

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I don't know--but it does seem like they're not afraid to make Rodney a more human and well-rounded person, with flaws and all that.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_bettina_/]

I liked the B plot, I liked the interaction between Ronon and Teyla. The contrast between A and B plot was a bit jarring, though.

Rodney! John! Rodney and John! It's obvious they love each other. Hee. All those flirty looks and smiles, very cool. The end has a positive note to it and we all know that Rodney will earn John's trust back. They can't stay away from each other too long.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I think the B plot would have definately gone better with a different A plot. It's not that I didn't enjoy it, I'm finding Ronon very interesting, but damn, it kept interfering with my John and Rodney show!!

And they so do love each other. *g*

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

What I didn't get was John's emotions at the end.

I think part of it at least is fear. John's more than a little rattled that Rodney can actually be wrong, I think. And not just wrong, but catastrophically wrong. We've seen him put his absolute faith in Rodney's abilities in the past, and now there's a chink in his reasoning for doing that.

Also? Fear that they nearly, almost, once again, and this time needlessly, died. The love is so strong!

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I would have love for them to have addressed that aspect of it. John's faith in Rodney is pretty impressive, from that first "What would McKay do" moment in "The Storm". I hope we get a chance to see how this affects him.

[mythdefied.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've ever been so much in love with a single episode. I knew Rodney was heading for a big fall from the very beginning, but the way John stuck by him, wanted it to be him and Rodney all the way. And even at the end, when Rodney pleads for forgiveness, you just know that John will give it to him. He's so obviously disappointed/disillusioned, but he still cares so much for Rodney and you can see that he wants to trust/have faith in Rodney again.

The love was just so there between them through the whole ep. I never thought I'd see an ep where the subtext came so close to realtext.

I didn't see it as so out of character for Elizabeth to be yelling at Rodney. As others have said, she was under a ton of pressure and Rodney was a part of that. And then he goes and destroys the better part of a solar system. He could've killed millions as well as himself and Sheppard, he was just fortunate that he and John got out of there and that there were no others around. I don't think Elizabeth thinks that Rodney fully appreciates the depth of his mistake, and she wanted to drill it into his head.

I think she managed that pretty well, but now I'm worried that Rodney's confidence in himself will be impaired. That could have catastrophic consequences for Atlantis and further missions, if Rodney is too leery/scared of relying on himself at a critical moment, or, worse, if his teammates also fear relying on him.

I hope the show deals with the fallout from this. It'll be interesting. (And so should the fic based on this ep!)

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what you said. There was so much to love about this ep, wasn't there? Subtext almost becoming text. I watched it again last night, and...guh...so good. I *love* the way John and Rodney were in this, when they were together, you could just feel the warmth and affection. It's such a beautiful thing. And at the end, on the planet, when John was yelling at Rodney that they had to leave? I think that's the most emotion we've seen out of John.

I so want to see the effects of John's faith in Rodney being shaken, as much as I want to see the effects of Rodney losing faith in himself.

This is SUCH a fabulous show. *g*

a comparison...

[delia1138.livejournal.com]

Noticed something that I thought others might find interesting.
You know that movie, Century Hotel?
The scene right before the big gay kiss, Hewlett has his arms crossed, leaning back a tad, with his eyes kinda half-lidded.
Compare that moment where Rodney, Zelenka, and John are discussing the weapon. When Rodney says he doesn't want to tell John the nifty thing. EXACT SAME POSE!
Coincidence?
Probably! But still of teh gay.
BTW, hi! I love your fic.

Re: a comparison...

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

::waves:: Hiya! And thank you. *g*

I just love that moment in "Century Hotel", LOL! That look his gives the other guy before the kissing starts? Is *hot*.

And I think this all means he should have kissed John during that scene. Zelenka would understand. *g*

[tinny]

I think I was too distracted by Rodney being so utterly, heartbreakingly sincere to really get a read on John.

Hee. :) Here's my 2c.

I seem to be the only one who thought John was *too* positive at the end...?

John usually is a person who takes his own guilt very seriously (as opposed to Rodney, who - to me - came across as insincere in his apologies and his assurance that he is aware of the fact that he is responsible for Collins' death). John knows he was partly responsible, for trusting Rodney. He will take this badly and seriously. In that light, I can't see him telling Rodney that everything's peachy and that Rodney will get back into his good graces with time. Not to mention that Rodney, his idol, has received a big blow. I just can't see him acting this friendly right away.

That's not how it's done, and John would make a point of chastizing Rodney. Not like Elizabeth, who got angry at him, or Radek, who has that situation with Rodney all the time. John would make sure to drive the point home, not try to lessen Rodney's guilt like that. I would have preferred him being a bit more final, more distant in the end.

The only thing I can think of that would make him act this friendly, is a sign of his walls coming up. Which would mean distancing himself, so nothing he said then means anthing much, it's just deflection. He'll need time to sort out his own feelings. Which is also of course the reason he tried to avoid Rodney. He can't really accept his apology tight now.

Then again, I'm really craving some *conflict* between the two, and I'm afraid all that will happen is that everyone will write makeup sex. //)

Ah, well, I can hope. I'll try to find some dark fic with angry Sheppard.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

He'll need time to sort out his own feelings. Which is also of course the reason he tried to avoid Rodney. He can't really accept his apology right now.

That's a very good point--I would love for them to get a little more inside of John's head with all this stuff. He always has such faith in Rodney (his idol--yup, pretty much so), and now that faith is shaken. I can see him being more angry at himself, maybe, than at Rodney. Maybe not trusting his own judgement anymore, either.

It's such good stuff, and I will be very upset if it's all blown over by the next episode.